Talk:House Veilleux
I think you should change Madora's family being found on Terra to being found on some other distant planet. This stops any non-canon conflicts with the Emperor arising or the issue that the Terrans lacked spacecraft until their unification (they would be a tad suspicious if they saw any kind of craft entering the atmosphere). Also, one small issue with dates. If you change the location of the Madora family they would have to be brought into the imperium sometime after M29. Other than that it seems like a rather canon friendly article since the House is not open about their ancestry, wisely keeping it blurred. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 00:16, July 10, 2011 (UTC) I was looking to keep their origins on Terra. Is there anyway to make that happen? I also should have mentioned the Akili being spies and all have stealth tech. Anyway, thanks for the input. 04:31, July 10, 2011 (UTC) Also, given their expansive size and the power they wield, House Vellieux would in fact be much more than just a Rogue Trader Dynasty (which are usually fairly small). They would actually be considered to be a much more prestigious Imperial House (particularly if they were the leaders of their adopted planet when it joined the Imperium. So... technically it is incorrect to call them just a Rogue Trader Dynasty). Imperial House's are the top dogs of the planets they own, they are the rulers, with members of their family taking the important roles of Planetary Governor and other key positions. All of the fractured houses that are Vellieux's descendants would be considered Noble Houses A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 13:30, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Yeah. Besides I doubt that Rogue Traders are allowed to rule planets. As individuals that can fraternize with unsavory faction, the Inquisition would not allow it. After all such an individual could infect the populace with unimperial ideas. Supahbadmarine 13:44, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Thanks for backing me up on this. I was looking through my Necromunda Rulebook PDF and found that the term they use is Ruling House or Ruling Dynasty. I think that is what Veilleux is more similar to. Wheras the sub-houses, mentioned in the Breaking Up the House section, would be considered Noble Houses. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 14:39, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Speaking of which, in this case dynasty means a line of succession and inheritance. Rogue Trader Dynasties do not control any territory becuase by their nature Rogue Traders are constantly moving. Supahbadmarine 14:47, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Your correct again. A Rogue Trader Dynasty is effectively formed as a result of the right of succession of the Warrant of Trade from parent to child. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 16:48, July 14, 2011 (UTC) So my guess would be to state that they were a nobal family from Terra that became Rogue Traders during the Great Crusade, and eventually transitioned into the role of Imperial House later on, perhaps sometime around M33, when the first Space Marine chapter established themselves in the sector. What do think? Vivaporius 16:55, July 14, 2011 (UTC) It is actually against Imperial Law to either decline being a Rogue Trader or to relinquish the position, holders of the position must continue to be one until their death. It would be far more likely that a member of the family reached the role of Imperial Commander or similarly high position, and that after the conquest of a planet was made Planetary Governor after the world fell to Imperial rule. The original Lord Commanders of the Great Crusade were chosen from the noble houses which lived on Terra, therefore a member of the Madora/Veilleux family was chosen to hold the position. At the end of the Heresy, the Commander (or his heir) could then have conquered a planet for the Imperium, which he was then allowed to rule. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 17:10, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Okay, here's and idea. The Veilleux Family, rogue traders now, discovered the Celeste Sector. They report it to the head of the Kongo Corps, the family's native military force from Terra, and supplement to the Imperial Army. As the rest of the military is occupied elsewhere, the Kongolese force is sent to take the empty sector. When Binadamu divides the house later on, the four sucessor houses are free of the trade warrent, and Binadamu plays his hand to use the warrant to give the family massive amounts of xeno technology. The warrant allows it, and as the noble houses as bound to the imperial house but not the warrant, he exploits that loophole to filter it to the Five Houses. The Inquisition can't do a thing about it, and the Five Houses still benefit. The free House Veilleux of the warrant, Binadamu has a sixth house, House Diriger, which is lead by the heir to the trade warrant, who wanted to explore the galaxy. Everyone still wins, save for the Inquisition, and the Five Houses of Celeste, save for House Diriger, are free to exploit their position in the sector, and the Diriger warrant still states that so long as a Veilleux (or Diriger now due to Binadamu's forging) holds the warrant, the actions of the Five Houses are completely legal. Just to be safe, copies of the document are kept by each family, and should the original, kept by the Diriger family at all times, ever be destroyed, the other houses can compensate. Tell me what you think. Vivaporius 18:01, July 14, 2011 (UTC) That would still be against the established Canon. I know you think that only Rogue Traders can freely mingle with Xenos and hence, the reason you want the Veilleux to have the same kind of freedom. But actually, Planetary Governors are actually free to rule their planet, their populace and their armies (except Space Marines) as they like, so long as their world remains prosperous. Therefore, as long as, the Veilleux's planet remained prosperous, payed it's tithes and kept the mutant (as well as Psykers) levels at a stable level then they would be fine. Also, there are NO LOOPHOLES in a Rogue Trader's Warrants of Trade, it must be passed down through the generations and all descendants are bound by it. And no one can receive the benefits of the Warrant of Trade without receiving the downside of being unable to settle planets. For a Ruling Family such as the Veilleux, a Warrant of Trade would actually be more of a hindrance than a help (which is why such documents are sometimes awarded to ambitious individuals as a means of preventing them from gaining other positions of power). I suggest you just leave them as an Imperial Family (or Ruling Family as they are also known), as they have a lot of freedom, particularly during times when they cannot contact Terra. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 18:27, July 14, 2011 (UTC) The only other issue that I can see, is that Eldar would not be allowed to settle within their borders due to Imperial Law. Otherwise they would be branded as traitors. They also could not have open alliances with either the Tau or the Eldar. However they could still secretly have ties to the Eldar and other Xenos, so long as the rest of the Imperium didn't get wind of it. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 18:33, July 14, 2011 (UTC) So change them to an Imperial Family. Got it. Okay here we go. The family instead of becoming Rogue Traders, grew into a powerful Imperial House when on Terra, having controlled vast territories before the Emperor's Unification Wars. When the family handed them territories over the Emperor, they became the governors of their former empire. During the Great Crusade, they used their forces to conquer a small group of sectors in the far south of Segmentum Tempestus. During their campaign, they were thrown off course during a warp storm, and discovered the Celeste Sector. The sector was cut off from the rest of the Imperium for hundreds and sometimes thousands of years at a time. The Veilleux colonized the planet of Celeste, and waited out the warp storm. Binadamu shows up, guides the house and it's sucessors during the fifty isolation from Terra. The house is given control of the sector, with the job of representing Imperial intrest there, and exempt from tithes do to the impredictiblity of hitting one of many, many warps storms there. The Veilleux develop their own policies of handling xenos, and shelter an Eldar craftworld that took refuge there just after the Fall of the Eldar. Most of the sector is aware of their presence, but owe their alligence to the Five Houses, not Terra. The Space Marine chapter sent to Celeste after the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy, the Lord's Chevaliers, arrive in small fleets throughout M33, with the belief that their's is the surviving splinter fleet of the original. As a result each company swears fealty to a patron house, and grows into the house's chapter, operating under completely different rules than most Astartes chapters (like having a mandatory size of 1500 marines). The Inquisition allows this, stating that the sector was a breeding ground for warp spawns and heretics, believing the sector still loyal to the Imperium, and knowing the true situtation in the sector. In M38, a Adepta Sororita fleet enters the sector to check on the progress of the church, led by a la Croix appointed to led the fleet through the storms (as knowledge of getting to the sector is known only to residents from it). Trapped inside of the sector, the Sororita find themselves working for House la Croix, who are far more pious then the Sororitas themselves. This leads to the Order of the St.Theo (former head of House la Corix) being founded in M38. Today, the Celeste sector operates in a completely different fashion than the rest of the Imperium, and the government on Terra, completely unaware of the sector's welfare, believes that so long as one of the Five Houses is in control the sector is loyal. I'm truely, truely sorry for the wall of text. I kept thinking of more ideas, and threw them in as well. Take a gander and tell me what you think. Vivaporius 19:49, July 14, 2011 (UTC) You are going to have to be very careful with that idea. They have a lot of secrets that could destroy them if they were revealed. All of this power that they have accumulated will draw the eyes of the Inquisition. It would be difficult for the house to hide it's secrets due to it's size and power. The bigger an organization is, the more difficult it is for it to stop information from leaking out. Also, I know that we here about corrupt, incompetent Inquisitors all the time, but the inquisition as a whole has not suffered from the same level of stagnation and incompetence that the rest of the Adeptus Terra are subject to. This is because the Inquisition is manned by some of the most capable individuals in the Imperium, each having been selected for his abilities by a previous Inquisitor. Furthermore, because of the nature of their work, and the rivalries that occur within the Inquisition, incompetent Inquisitors do not last long. Supahbadmarine 20:45, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Also, they would not be exempt from tithes no matter what. They would merely only have to provide it when travelling to the sector was safe. That way they could easily accumulate more wealth between Warp Storms. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 21:05, July 14, 2011 (UTC) True that. I've considered the dangers of them harbouring xenos, but the sector is very secure in their dealings with the Inquisition, as Binadamu's Akili agents have been watching the watchers themselves since their creation. There is little Houses let alone the Inquisition can do without Binadamu knowing of it. I'm thinking of a story in which one Inquisitor learns of the Five Houses betrayer of the Imperium, and gets into a scuff with the Marquis of House le Traître on the way back to Terra. The influence of the Five Houses is based within the Celeste Sector, but their rich trade routes through the tiny gaps in the warp storms, and token control of their old province back on Terra is the only reason why they bother with the galaxy outside the sector. Vivaporius 21:11, July 14, 2011 (UTC) One other thing. Please, please do not include them sheltering a Xenos, otherwise this article is actually going very close to breaking the Canon. Having ties with them would be fine, as it is a very difficult thing to prove, but a full blown Craftworld existing within it would just lead the Space Marine chapter to attacking long before they even met the House Veilleux (and they would not understand the House' views). Also, be think you should change the sector being accidently discovered by the Sector. Instead it should be the late honouring of a request the House made before they were cut off by Warp Storms (expecting aid from one of the Legions), and receiving the Fourth Founding chapter unexpectedly. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 21:14, July 14, 2011 (UTC) You can't moniter the entire Inquisition. There is no established hierarchy or chain of command. Besides that Inquisitiors have extreme leeway in their doings. They often work without contact with any of the rest of the Inquisition. Furthermore you have to put a cap on all of this manipulation that Binadamu is doing. It is starting to look like you want him to be some puppeteer pulling the strings of the Imperium. That would be going too far. Supahbadmarine 21:24, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Tithe grades range from Solutio Extremis to Decuma Prima then? Vivaporius 21:28, July 14, 2011 (UTC) He's not watching the entire Inquisition, just those who venture to far into his terf (Solaris, Celeste Sector, Afrika, and the Spectre Nebula), and certainly no puppeteer, speaking of which The Dark Seer. He only influence events that will harm or effect the Federation or it's constitutents. Vivaporius 21:35, July 14, 2011 (UTC) It was a small craftworld, at the edge of the sector. It was almost destroyed during the Fall, but fled to the edge of the galaxy. The Eldar are the only xenos in the sector, and it shall remain that way, no Tau, Tyranids, or Orks, just Eldar. And like your idea of the honored request made one of the Houses. Please elaborate on that. Vivaporius 21:42, July 14, 2011 (UTC) I hear what you are saying, but an Inquisitor can start a secret investigation on a whim. He does not have to tell anybody that he is going to do it, he does not have to announce his precense, he can just go do it without anybody being the wiser. Could Binadamu really keep track of something like that? Supahbadmarine 21:48, July 14, 2011 (UTC) The Akili is an intellegence agency in the Federation, created by Binadamu, for his personal use. They are breed for the sole purpose of spying and assassination. They have, as of 999.M41, 35,000 years of experience, far more than the Inqisition has. They make use of the their psychic and shapeshifting abilities to work on world throughout the galaxy. They were created to keep Binadamu up-to-date on the galaxy. They specilize in secret investigations, and with they experience on Inquisitors (though they of course vary from Inquisitor), know all the angles played by them. Inquisitors in the eyes of the Akili, stick out like a sore thumb. Plus, they watch every corner of the sector. At that little itty, bity hole in the warp storms Inquisitors keep using to get into the sector. Fools. :) Vivaporius 22:03, July 14, 2011 (UTC) It doesn't matter how small the Craftworld may be, the Astartes would be sure to attack it. Please remove it and change it with something like "there are many rumours that indicate that House Veilleux has strong ties to an Eldar Craftworld Name. Of course, all of these claims have been strongly denied in the presence of Inquisitors". As for more information on the request. Planetary Governors can make requests to the Administratum for reinforcements and the like if they are under attack. Unfortunately, as the Administratum is very slow in it's response, due to it's tedious bureaucratic tendencies, most requests are answered long after the need for them. Therefore, at the end of the Horus Heresy the leader of the Veilleux could have made a request for the aid of some Astartes (due to some incursion or another), expecting a representative from one of the Legions. Millennia after the request was made, it is answered after the request filters through to the High Lords of Terra, and a Space Marine Chapter are deployed to aid the Celeste Sector. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 22:12, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Excuse while I rewrite the post I had before my internet decided it was the boss of the computer. Vivaporius 22:14, July 14, 2011 (UTC) The Celeste Sector has 26 small gaps in the warp storms that blanket the sector. 5 of them are most or less stable, while the others are undoubtly deadtraps. The Five Houses have troops stationed at each, and are tasked with stopping and searching ships passing through for contraband, criminals, pirates, you know, bad stuff. They search every ship top to bottom, and any Inquisitors found are to be reported. The soldier(s) are to simply say hi, bye, tell their commander, and get out of dodge. The commander tells his House, who in turn tell the Akili, in turn, capture, interragate, and kill them. Simple as that? Not really. Suprise! The Akili has to put a replacement in corpse's spot, as the Inquisition will know something has happened to the cadaver in the cargo bay of the Akili agent. The Akili turn into their victim, and take their place, relaying information of the dealings of the Imperium back to the Federation, and using the Inquisition's ability to do whatever they want to go where ever they want in the Imperium. Vivaporius 22:25, July 14, 2011 (UTC) That would be all well, and good if the grunt can tell that the person passing through is an Inquisitor, but they often do their job undercover. For instance an Inquisitor might enter by posing as a deckhand for one of the merchant ships. Supahbadmarine 22:33, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Okay Cal_XD, as for the Craftworld. The Five Houses have kept a tight leash on they respective Astartes chapters, and upon discovering the craftworld, the Akili pounced upon the fleets of the Five Houses, to give them instructions on how to deal with the Eldar. They set up a secret treaty with the Eldar, allowing them to stay, but out of sight and keep to themselves. The Eldar in turn gave the House a few concessions like a tidbit of info on Eldar tech, which the Akili managed to bargain out of them (death threats, touture, and outright genocide). The Alvere Pact (named after the fleet commander), was the secret treaty between the Eldar and the Five Houses, in which the Eldar would be allowed to stay in the sector, and out of the sight of the Space Marines, so long as they provided technological assistence to House Maître. I'm still other ideas, but your's Cal seems to be the best right now. Vivaporius 22:35, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Deck hand? Well he/she would still have to pass the psychic scan of the ship by the psykers on the station, and the Akili agents stationed on board that base. Perhaps the result of a pass breach of security? Vivaporius 22:37, July 14, 2011 (UTC) For an entire sector to have that level of security the Inquisition would definately smell that something was amiss. You have to face it, They could no more stop all of the infiltrators coming in than the Inquisition could detect everything that infiltrates the Imperium. Sooner or later something gets through the net, that is just how espionage is. Supahbadmarine 22:49, July 14, 2011 (UTC) While I see you point, the Inquisition would have to consider the dangers of that sector. It's a haven for pirates and heretics, which one of the many reasons the sector is required by the Five Houses to have such a readiness for war. They have very information on the sector itself, as few even known where Celeste in located, due it part to the lack of information that get's back to the Imperium. Traders from that sector share little information about their home region, and the gaps in the warp storms open once even 170 to 300 years, with the more stable ones opening every 70 years or so. It's not the safest place to travel in either, as Akili agents hiding with the many warp storms through out the sector make random scans on passing ships, scan the ships, it's contents, and they passengers (psychically of course), and if their Inquisitors, instant cadaver. 23:04, July 14, 2011 (UTC)